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February 02, 2007


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that story made me sad. it's a hard decision either way. so so sorry.


It is quite a story. The most poignant line for me was "He has taught me that my own need to love him is far greater than his physical needs could ever have been."

I think Pam has hit on something profoundly important: our need to learn how to love unconditionally.


I would just like to say I am going through what Pam and her family had to go through and I am in so much pain right now. The thought that I am 18 going on 19 weeks now and the pictures that I have seen of babies at this stage in their life are so adorable I'm having a hard time to finalize my decision on this being the right decision for me to abort my baby. My doctors let me know my baby has trisomy 18 and 21 and is not expected to live and my experience over this time period has been hard. Inspiring stories like this one give my hope I appreciate this story.


My prayers go out to you, Lonyota.

steve the z

mine as well, i hope you have support around you.


Hi Lonyota - I too will add my prayers. FWIW, almost 6 years ago to the day we found out that our second child was suffering congestive heart failure in the womb, and subsequent tests showed that she had trisomy 21. It's not an easy road to walk down. Some of our own story is here.


I doubt this womans mental issued just started after her abortion. Such a person perhaps should not be a mother to anyone. (Case in point she is not being a good mother now to he only daughter)

Fact she stated "my only son" unless infertile this statement may not be true

Fact... any adult when considering a pregnacy should have alread set in their mind the "if this happen what will I do" senareo.

There is no doubt in my mind that this abortion was the correct thing to do. Too bad this person wishes to be a martor (spelling not correct) and not enjoy the life she has been given.

A mother of a Down's child.


Sarah - many parents who lose babies to death find that the grief (in some form) continues on for many years to come. Why should this person be exempt from that? What she is expressing is her sense of betrayal by "well meaning" professionals, many of whom are woefully under-educated on such issues. A case in point is the recent research and activism by the CDSS on the ways in which genetic counsellors speak to parents. That would, to me, be more indicative of facts.

And as a side note, at least in my circle we try to say things like "parent of a child who is living with Down Syndrome". As a parent, I wouldn't use the phrase "Down's child" any more than I would refer to an ill parent as a "cancer Dad".


I found this statement, from Joseph, profoundly disturbing:

"I doubt this womans mental issued just started after her abortion. Such a person perhaps should not be a mother to anyone. (Case in point she is not being a good mother now to he only daughter)....There is no doubt in my mind that this abortion was the correct thing to do. Too bad this person wishes to be a martor (spelling not correct) and not enjoy the life she has been given...."

I would be more disappointed with our medical system in encouraging abortion - and the lives affected by those who heed such 'wisdom'. Many cannot, and hopefully never have to, know the pain of following medical advice to abort, and discovering their loss is by far more profound than they could imagine, or even hinted at by those giving such advice....and the realization that nothing can undo that decision or completely heal the pain.

Condemnation of those mentally scarred from abortion cannot be tolerated. It is unfortunate that those who do so, fail to realize the consequences of their own actions, and will at some point need the mercy they failed to give.


Jaime - just so you are clear, the commenter's name is below each comment, not above it. The paragraph you quoted was written by Sarah, not by joseph.


I was expected to abort by professionals, I will not use the word council or well meaning they weren't. They simply no longer thought our growing baby had any value. I finally just starting hanging up when they continued to phone me to see if I had come to a different decision they said after 22 weeks it gets a little more "difficult" FOR WHO????????????
The baby? ME? THE FAMILY? No for them the "professionals.
I personally was at my most fragile state of mind and now a year later and a very proud Momma of our beautiful son I thank God every day....not just for our angel but for just being too afraid and too stubburn to cave.
God Bless you original poster and as a mom who has also suffered pregnancy loss let me tell the other poster it can throw the most level headed sane person spiraling.


Kerry - thanks for sharing some of your story. One of the things which many of us would like to see changed is the level of accurate information given to prospective parents, and better counselling. It is often woefully inadequate or completely out of date. As you say so well, learning of a difficult prenatal diagnosis is a very hard thing to deal with. Our prayers are with you, and we rejoice at the gift of your son.


When reading this information, I cant help but think about the story that my mother has been telling me throughout my life.

When I was still in my mother's womb, the prenatal tests for down syndrome came back positive. It was hard for my mother and father to digest and the doctor asked/ recommended abortion. My parents experienced many problems in trying to conceive me, and they said they were not going to give up.

And I am very thankful for that. I am now 20 years old and have lead a perfectly healthy life: the test had been faulty. I always think about how fortunate and blessed I am to be on this earth.


My husband and I recently had our first baby, a son, which we love very much. Unfortunately we were only able to have him with us here on earth for 41 days as God called him home. Our son was diagnosed with the possibility of Trisomy 21 at 12 weeks gestation and we were offered all of the tests and an abortion if we wanted to take that route. My husband and I never even thought twice as to our decision as we knew we would love our little boy no matter what.

Please take our story into consideration before you refuse to give your child a fighting chance at this world.

My husband and I spent the duration of our pregnancy thinking that we would have to learn to cope with the challenges that raising a child with Down Syndrome would entail. To us that didn't seem like such a terrible thing to have to do. We know Down Syndrome babies and adults and they lead very meaningful lives in our community. We knew our lives were going to change with the birth of our son but we were completely unprepared for how much and how. You see, it was not the fact that our son was born with Down Syndrome that has made our life tough right now. It is the fact that our son died that makes life tough. It breaks my heart to know that I would give anything to have my baby back, Down Syndrome and all, yet so many people only want a healthy child. My husband and I know how lucky we are to have our son and thank God every day that he chose us to be his parents, despite his health problems and the pain it has caused us now. Please remember that just because a doctor tells you your child may have Trisomy 21, that doesn't make them any less precious or lovable.


Wanda - thanks for sharing your story with us. May God's peace and love be with you.

Cindy Johnson

I think you did the right thing by having the abortion. God gave us the ability to see at an early stage of pregnancy many aspects of a fetus's health. He did that so that we can make informed choices. While terminating a pregnancy should never be taken lightly, bringing a child with massive mental and physical problems shouldn't be taken lightly either. Unlike much of the propaganda you see nowadays about these babies--which frequently depicts a happy, peaceful, and healthy down syndrome child-- most of them have serious heart problems, not to mention a host of other serious physical and mental problems that will cause perpetual suffering and agony for practically all of their shortened life. It's simply not fair to bring a child like that into the world just to satisfy one's instinct or one's particular revisionist religious dogma.


cindy, i could not disagree more. life is for God to give and for God to take, He tells us this in His word! i know a few people with down syndrome who have lived very wonderful lives, and brought so much joy and happiness to all those around them. abortion is murder, plain and simple, and pam is right to regret her decision. i am very glad that she found forgiveness through Christ, and is now moving on in a sense.

michelle andrews

My sister and was told that my nephew would have down syndrome, they went ahead and had my lovely little nephew, who was born a very healthy baby no complecations what so ever during his birth!!

My partner’s sister and her boy friend decided to become parents, was told the same as my sister, and decided to terminate the pregnancy. She has since been so traumatised by the abortion, that she has been depressed and miserable for the past 2 months, and has since had her partner leave her as his worried that they cannot create a healthy baby together.

Just two different scenarios 1 1/2 years apart from the same small country town


I Am also one the parents who is going right now with this situation. I was 18 the week pregnant when my doc told me that I am carrying DS baby... It's not easy to take decision of getting terminate pregnancy, but we made decision about thinking baby future but now everyday I am questioning myself did I made right decision. I recently had this procedure


Ever consider that there are 8 billion people on earth....god, jesus, santa, easter bunny does not decide who gets a downs baby...its a genetic defect. Its a way to cope though if u are unlucky and are faced with a downs baby.


Cindy johnson is right.


Hank and Cindy's posts both broke my heart. While Cindy is correct, heart defects and a series of other physical and mental barriers generally go hand in hand with being blessed by a baby with DS, that does not make their lives any less valuable. (All 9 lbs 2 oz of our baby is recovering from the open-heart surgery he had at 4 months to repair his congenital heart defect, [a complete AV Canal defect]) and I can assure you, he is just as valued and loved as any baby ever has been.) And to quote her, "host of other serious physical and mental problems that will cause perpetual suffering and agony" ... um, what? Perpetual suffering and agony? No. I would like to challenge you, Cindy to find ONE person, child, adult, etc who is "suffering and in agony." You don't even seem to consider them... people. It's like they are less than, simply because of a genetic issue. And Hank. Oh Hank. "unlucky and are faced with a downs baby." Wow. That felt like a personal attack to all of us who do have children with DS in our lives. There is nothing unlucky about it. I feel BLESSED to have a DS baby in my life. Blessed. At 5 months old, this baby has already taught me more about life, and myself, and everyone else in the world than I have learned in almost 20 years... and I know he will continue to do so everyday of his life.

My heart goes out to the both of you, Cindy and Hank... that you may in time be able to see the blessing that is a baby with DS. I can't imagine the kind of sad lives you two must have to be able to say such painful things about a situation that yes, comes with it's challenges, also comes with the greatest love and unsurpassable blessings one could ever imagine.


There is no right or wrong. The "God" we all think of is not vengeful, does not punish, is not an insecure God that needs to be venerated and adored, and we don't get punished. We have "free will" and we didn't come to this plane of existence to suffer. There is no need for suffering. Parents choose to have disable babies for selfish reasons, as well as it is having a termination a selfish reason. It is OK to be selfish. It is your choice. I personally think it is not fair to bring a child into the world that will be bullied (I don't care what you say, even perfectly normal, healthy children have self esteem problems, there will always be a mean child out there that will tease) not fully accepted, and they will suffer, not only physically but emotionally. There is a difference between not knowing that your child had down's until birth than knowing at 12 or 16 weeks. If you didn't know, and your child is born, what can you do but to love him/her... but if you know before hand, why choose that situation for the poor child. Even normal people that are, lets say, overweight feel ostracised... or too tall, or too skinny, or God knows what... now imagine a child that is mentally retarded or slow, that looks and act different, that has health problems etc... what are you going to do when the child cries because he is different, or bullied, or sick or what have you? As a parent I want nothing more for my child to be someone that fits somehow into our society, someone that has opportunities to thrive and be whoever he/she wants to be. To have an education and even if he is not the brightest, went to the best school, has a top paying job... even if he just has a dumb job at a supermarket, a partner and a home, being rented or his own.. to be happy and contented. That I doubt will happen with a down syndrome child. And not everyone feels blessed by it. Some feel cursed or punished, why me? That is why 90% of babies diagnosed with Down's get aborted and some get put up for adoption. You have to have a very stable marriage, be financially stable, be strong psychologically, emotionally etc to be able to deal with what having a down's baby involves. And not everyone can say they are all that.

It is not easy to abort a child, especially a much wanted one but you also have to take the greater good into consideration. Well that is my opinion, and... opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one.


Wow, this is a hot thread. As always, I really appreciate your cool-headedness and thoughtfulness, Joe.

Aimee, I wonder what you mean by "The greater good". Do you speak of a kingdom of man 'greater good', or that from a Kingdom of Heaven being instantiated now? That is, on what basis is the life of the parent and child to be measured? Why only from a socio-economic standpoint?


MacK - nice to hear your (digital) voice? How are you these days? And where are you? Close enough for beverages or still traveling?


Everyone's viewpoint is valid and clear. I don't think I could agree with Aimee or Cindy any more or less than say MacK or anyone else. However, the poster sarah's mention of how she believed aborting the baby was "obviously the right choice", that confuse me because really, no one else is saying that you Should ever clearly abort a baby but as Aimee stated, an opinions an opinion and everyone's entitled to one or more.

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blank stare...

  • Copyright Rev. Joseph Walker, St Timothy's Anglican Church

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