Info on 2011 Holy Land Pilgrimage

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January 08, 2007

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Shawn C. Branch

It's great to see another Church House position filled with a follow Christian.

Scott Gilbreath

Doesn't Judy Steers's comment imply that St Thomas was right out to lunch? (St John 20:28)

Susan

Great. Another builder, and a builder (I don't think so) of Canadian Anglican youth, rejects the Cornerstone. Jesus, God, of God, Light, of Light, Very God, of Very God, continues to be a stumblingstone and rock of offence, a stumblingblock and foolishness. May God have mercy on his Church and those of his children who stumble from being led by the blind. And may God open her eyes.

joseph

The question of whether or not we are to worship Jesus does indeed come back to a Jesus seminar question. How do we handle the texts which we have received as canonical scripture? Scott, as you point out, Thomas' declaration that Jesus is 'my God' is of course a key Gospel episode - Jesus accepts the recognition of his divinity, and it is the culmination of Thomas' discipleship. But in order to accept the divinity of Jesus, the prior question (the one which is really at the heart of the "anglican troubles" is our varying attitudes toward the Scriptures.

Judy

Hi folks,

Nice to see people commenting on the Jesus seminar - but I'd like to invite you to put your comments on the seminar itself, and not lob potshots from other blogs.
The point of the discussion is not to express 'the be all and end all' of who Jesus is, or to make sure everyone is toeing the line of doctrinal orthodoxy but rather for people to openly express their various thoughts about Jesus in a public forum. Many of the youth that I meet in the course of my ministry have serious questions about some of the Christological claims of the church, and want to be able to express their thoughts without people jumping down their throat that they are immediately going to hell because of what they might wonder, question or challenge. Many youth who I meet say "I can't ask questions like this at home - people would get really angry at me". The purpose of the site is to encourage thought and discussion. The purpose of the site is not to ensure that everyone believes exactly the same things the same way.

Yes, I think following Jesus is more important than worshipping him, yes, I think Jesus is the incarnation of God and yes, I think we should worship God, but Jesus said over and over in the gospels "Follow Me" but he never said "worship me as God". I think if we put too much emphasis on the worship of Jesus, we lose the point of his message.

So, would you like to add your comments to the seminar, and other people can say what they think too? Please recognize that this seminar is for youth, and so do not use technical or in-depth theological language that the average 16 year old would not understand.

Also, please do not assume Susan that I am not Christian (rejecting the cornerstone?) merely because I question some of the ways we have interpreted Jesus over the centuries. John Meaghar's "The Truing of Christianity" is one inspiration I have in sifting through the missteps we have taken in overemphasizing some aspects of Jesus, while diminishing others.

Judy

Leslie

As one who works with teenagers, I see those who are afraid to question as being in the minority. There was once a day when they may have been the majority, but now? I guess I don't see it. Still, questioning is good.

Especially when it helps the kids get to the best answer. I've always found the most peace in this answer. Granted, it didn't come from Jesus mouth. (To remain humble and exalted requires someone else to speak for you.) And when sung to the tune of this song the kids find their wings and begin to fly. Everyone does.

Tim

I'll second that -the answer and the song.

But Joe, I didn't know you let Lutherans comment on doctrinal issues on this blog (especially vicious rippers-off of duct tape...)... :)

Mike

It is a little disheartening to read about how unimportant and distracting the worship of Jesus is DURING EPIPHANY! I'm in with the wise guys! He's my King, my God and my Saviour, and I'll obey, worship and trust him!

cheryl

so...does this trend to "follow Jesus, not worship him", mean that the next issue at the anglican synod will be to drop the "christian" in reference to the anglican faith? Will we be god-ians? little gods as opposed to little Christs? I did go to the generations site, and was unable see what was being discussed, so thank you Joe, for at least informing the wider christian population of the winds of change trying to blow down your church. As Father Cantalamessa addressed at the alpha conference in London,(hosted by the anglicans), that to be a "christian" indicates our faith is focussed on Christ. Yup, the stumbling block of Jesus and the cross...got to love it!

joseph

I think Judy's question of following/worshipping does raise some points. Partly it has to do with how people understand those two verbs. When we water down the worship of Jesus to mean something less than what God intended it to be, we can end up playing church but lack the heart that God desires for his people.

I suspect that the follow/worship dichotomy is part of our fracturing of life. Salvation is a kind of "wholeness", which integrates us. The God we worship in the Persons of Father, Son and Spirit wants our lives to reflect our worship, and our following of Jesus comes out of the power of the Spirit as we worship.

Can I follow Jesus without worshipping Him? People will have different answers to that question, but I submit that the living out of the Christian life is enabled by the worship of Christ.

Tim Chesterton

I think there are people who start following Jesus before they worship him (the early apostles, for instnce, followed Jesus before they undrstood who he was). Sooner or later, I think sincere followers will be led by the Spirit to worship the one they follow.

Susan

Hey. I'm with Mike. These probably pagan wise guys worshipped Him because they recognized Who He was. And I'm with Tim. Obey the command to follow and then you find out Who it is you are following. (see Anselm) And I'm with Joseph and Judy. So much of what we think is worship is really just "going to church", without obedience to His commandments. And I'm with the framers of the "Nicene" creed, Jesus is worshipped and glorified together with the Father and the Holy Spirit. And I'm confused by Judy, because if she says she believes in the Incarnation, and the Incarnation is all about the second Person of the Trinity taking on our nature, then Jesus is God, and if He is God, then the only proper response to a god I am aware of is worship. Obedience cannot be separated from true worship. And I'm so totally with Anselm, "Nor do I seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe that I may understand. For this too I believe, that unless I first believe, I shall not understand." Well. Off to view another episode of Black Books, the best thing the BBC has done for ages! (I got the first 2 seasons on DVD for Christmas!)

Troy

I'm with Jesus.

Thanks Susan, great response. Also, I think Augustine said something similiar, but I will leave it to Joseph to comment on that.

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  • Copyright Rev. Joseph Walker, St Timothy's Anglican Church

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